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Have you ever heard someone defend something with, “It’s not against the law”?
If we think about things that used to be legal…
Slavery.
Hitting your wife with things no wider than your thumb.
Dog fighting.
Lobotomies against the patient’s will.
Murder (as long as ‘they’ weren’t like ‘us’)
Well, it’s safe to say that there were lots of things that were once legal that now aren’t, and you wouldn’t dream of doing them, and don’t need a law to even tell you that they’re wrong, right? Generally, people consider a lot of laws to be pretty common sense, and even bordering on illegal is considered pretty negative.
So what is with some of the barely legal or even outright illegal parenting?
Yes, of course, I’m talking about car seats, again, mainly. What with the AAP finally making their “At least two years old” recommendation official (though they’ve promoted it unofficially for years), lots of arguments and outrage has erupted from moms across the United States, and highlighted in the little microcosm of our web-universe.
I will still flip my babies ON their birthdays unless they pass a law to make them go longer.
I flipped my daughter at 10 months when her feet touched the seat — this is stupid. I am not flipping her again.
I’m not sure I understand. In fact, I know I don’t. The latter is even illegal, so I really struggle to even want to try to understand that mentality of not only fighting against a recommendation you may not love, but to go so far as to literally break the law to do so, when the law is designed to save your child’s life? Why?
I had a person in my life, a person sort of related to me in a convoluted manner, tell me to mind my own fucking business when I, as nicely as I’m capable of (and I honestly can be very gentle and nice when I really try) let her know that boostering her 3 year old was illegal in her state. And of course, unsafe. She told me, “I’m the mom, I know what I’m doing.” But I really have to wonder… since when does being ‘the mom’ mean you can go so far as to break the law by doing something proven dangerous with your child? And… she knows she’s breaking the law? Um… yikes?
I mean… there are other things in parenting I wish were illegal but aren’t, but car seat safety? Those laws are based 100% on trying to safe your child from a terrible death, one that no amount of your “safe driving” can protect you from. You can be the safest driver on the road, but that doesn’t stop the guy who is pulling up at the intersection perpendicular to you from being drunk and ignoring the red light.
I guess it’s more of the same old, same old… parenting by “bare minimums” and “just enoughs.” I just can’t really understand that line of thinking… to only do the bare minimum the law requires to protect your child, and sometimes not even that? I mean, do you spank your child JUST hard enough that you don’t leave marks, but otherwise as hard as you can? Because it’s the marks that make it illegal, right? At one point does that kind of decision because not just “a parenting choice” but flat out lazy or bad parenting?
I suppose I’ll never understand, and in a way, I’m glad I won’t. I just wish more moms would be willing to go past the bare minimum recommendation or even just barely legal parenting and take the time to understand why those things exist, and go above and beyond. But that’s more wishful thinking. If your goals are just to barely avoid getting fined or arrested, I can’t help but think your priorities are very, very skewed.
Do you try just to stick to the minimum guidelines? How would you try to explain to someone why it’s worth it to go beyond bare minimum laws?
Tags: bare minimums, breaking the law, car seat safety, education, parenting choices
I totally get this! I had an incident at our local playground last summer that still bugs me. My DS had ridden his bike to the park and once there we put it beside the stroller. Another boy came by and grabbed it and when I told him to put it back he started to cry and ran to his mommy. I tried to go talk to him and tell him that the reason he could not ride it was A-it was not his and B-he did not have a helmet. The Mom then told me NOT to speak to her child and that wearing a helmet was not her rule. I tried to nicely inform her that it is not a ‘rule’ but a law for anyone under 18, and well, that did not go over well.
I still shake my head at this! And I just wanted to let you know that my 4 yr old and my 2.5 year old are both rear-facing and NEITHER one of them complains about it at all!! (And they had been FF before we got new seats that have the higher wt limit!!).
Thanks for all your great posts on the subject.
Love this! When I go into a car seat tyrant on my Facebook wall it is nuts how often and how many moms reply stating their child is “just under the age of the law” “my child is too big to (insert your choice, RF until at least 1, extend RF, harness to the legal age or extend harness)” or that (despite illegally being in the wrong seat i.e. booster before age 5 AND 4’9″) “they sit properly in it and leave the seat belt where it is suppose to sit” then I look at photos and clearly see the belt behind their shoulders, on their belly and in their necks. If the belt moves like this there is nothing stopping them from slipping out of it in an accident, injuring internal organs when it digs into their belly or snapping their neck when it jolts into it during an accident. The laws and recommendations are in place for a reason, not “as a guideline” on safety. I know some friends that are CPSTs and have decided if they don’t want to hear it to call the police and/or child services and let them be told the law or risk losing their children. IMO if a parent can’t obey the laws when told them then they shouldn’t be allowed to have children at all.
I think it might help if the AAP (and others) were a little more helpful/explicit about how rear-facing carseats with a larger child WORK. A picture of a happy rear-facing child with her legs crossed would do wonders for all the people who seem to think it’s impossible. Plus I’ve heard from (multiple!) people who seem to think that the phrase “better a broken leg than a broken neck” means that an older rear-facing child is at risk of a broken leg WITHOUT being in an accident (vs a broken neck from forward facing in an accident.) A lot of the resistance is probably the learning curve of parents not knowing how to actually make new recommendations work, when they don’t see them in action.
I think all moms have to weigh the evidence, the risks, the pros and the cons. I knew, before the new AAP recommendation came out, that I would be keeping my daughter rear-facing until she outgrew the height or weight restrictions for her seat (even if that doesn’t happen till she’s 3 or 4), because I’ve looked at the evidence and decided that it’s safer and worth the inconvenience.
However, I will probably *not* be keeping her in a booster until she’s 6 or 8 or whatever the law is. Again, I’ve looked at the evidence, and I know that a small seatbelt adjuster is just as safe at a certain height. If that’s illegal in my area, I’ll weight the penalties (fines, jail time, etc), and decide if it’s worth it to me.
Along with your list of terrible things that used to be legal, you could have also mentioned a large number of things that are illegal that are perfectly harmless or even beneficial. I think each mother needs to do her own research and go into every decision with her eyes wide open.
Twitter: RanaAurora
says:
Jessie… why would you be willing to break the law? That’s exactly what I’m talking about. Seatbelt adjusters have never been proven to be safe — in fact, there’s plenty of evidence that says that they aren’t… that they can shred the seatbelt, cause it to pull unevenly, cause it to malfunction, and absolutely no car manufacturer allows the use of them nor are ANY approved.
How is ANY fine or jailtime, and a product that has been deemed worthless at best to be considered better by anyone than simply keeping a $13 Harmony booster under your kid?
I’m sorry, but I just do NOT understand that. Especially when you obviously understand why rear-facing is safest, I really struggle to see how you could skip over boosters?
I DO agree that the AAP really needed to put out a lot of explanations about how car seats work and pictures of larger, older children rear-facing… and in boosters, since apparently not everyone is convinced of that either. But since they didn’t, that’s why people like me DO. Please check out even my previous post and read up on booster use and the dangers of not using them. It’s obvious you’re open to learning about car seat safety since you wisely have read up BEFORE the recommendations on rear-facing, so if you need any resources on boosters, please don’t hesitate to ask.
Actually the new recommendations is to booster until between 8-12 years of age. And I am sorry but seat belt adjusters are not allowed by any car manufacture. Besides a booster is so much cheaper then a hospital bill if your child in injured in a crash from abdominal injuries, or heaven for bid they are killed from a rupture in the abdominal cavity like the intestines that causes them to bleed to death! A funeral costs way more then a $13 booster
This is something that drives me nuts as well. I blogged about it here: http://thegnomesmom.com/2011/03/27/the-gnome-mobile/
I have one mommy friend who already has her 9 month old FF. Coincidentally, she is the only one who didn’t comment on my post. I’m so worried for her baby’s safety but she, “doesn’t want to hear it.”
Count me as one of those parents who get irritated at the mom who feels she simply must speak up in order to ensure the safety of other people’s kids.
Look, I realize there are good intentions of moms out there, but the bottom line, it’s none of your business and sure as sun if you were never asked for your opinion in the first place. Doesn’t matter how nice or gentle your tone or pure you intentions… if you weren’t asked, then it isn’t open for discussion, period. The real deal here, to these parents, isn’t about safety, it’s about criticizing indvidual parenting choices.
Going on and on about how you can’t understand why a parent would break the law or put their child’s safety at risk, doesn’t negate the rudeness of presumption, no matter how well intentioned your motives are. THAT is what the issue is with moms who are not particularly open to you about car seats. What next? Are you going to rail on them about the dangers of non-organic food or the importance of all day kindergarten while you’re at it?
And, speaking for myself, I come from a generation where we had no car seats and our monkey bars were planted in concrete. There were no bicycle helmets and the metal slides burned our thighs when we slid down them in the summer. Would I want to go back to all that? No, and I am glad for the increase in safety reqirements and awareness for kids. That said, however, I really really detest the nannygate attitudes that some think are perfectly okay for the sake of safety. Sorry, nothing is 100% safe, period. Case and point, talk to some EMTs and firemen about how much safer your kid is in a rear facing car seat when the car is in the water or on fire. You’d be way better off avoiding riding in cars all together, yet somehow your willingness to take the risk of getting in one, is okay. Why is that risk okay for you to take, but not for a different parent to put their own kid in a front facing seat?
See where I am going here?
Twitter: RanaAurora
says:
Is this your first time reading this blog, Tracey? I can’t imagine you’d hang around long if you feel that letting another mother know her child is illegally in a seat and in serious risk of danger is “presumptuous and rude.” None of my business? Thank god it IS since I helped just a few months ago a Korean family who had a seat that was AS OLD AS ME. They just had no idea. They thanked me profusely. Thank god I’m so “rude” then as to poke one of my friends who is a brand new mother and say, “Hey, um, have you heard about the pinch test?” and she also thanked me, thanked my friends who all helped her get her child safe. Thank GOD for all the “rude” mothers out there over the years who have spoken up and helped me, helped Michele, helped all of us. Rather than acting like moms who care about babies are being nosy bitches, how about you actually see it for what it is?
It’s women, who care about children, and want to help another mom learn and do better, because we know there is SO MUCH to learn about parenting that it’s practically impossible to get it all right all the time.
Organic food and all-day kindergarten? Yes, obviously, because those are just as black and white as “75% more likely to die, period.” Yup, TOTALLY the same thing. Give me a break. And on fire? Do you know how often cars are HIT, versus ending up in the water or on fire? Yeah, rather pathetic. I’m not going to apologize that I have taken time to help other mothers to learn things that *I* had to learn over time too, at my child’s expense. Enough moms out there have ASKED ME for advice, or thanked me personally when I took five minutes to actually put myself out there, that a few insecure people who feel that I’m a meanie don’t really get to me. Although, I do sit here and wonder why you’re so upset about this… how many laws have you broken?
Christie,
I have to say that I am impressed with your answer. Much more controlled than I felt when I read the post about the nosy, nannygate parents. I sure didn’t inherit or learn everything about parenting when I gave birth to my child. Labor didn’t make me omnicient, and I strongly suspect it to be true for other parents. I still have to ask and get help. My role in life as a parent is my child’s safety, well being, and to ensure my child’s positive growth.
Safety apparently comes second to some parents who are more concerned with unsolicited advice. That’s telling about their priorities. Being right all time, control, and self-perception is above safety. Nice.
Perhaps, before generalizing everyone that suggests, points out, or offers help as member of a malicious nannygate clan, they should examine their reasons for defensiveness and the motivation of the advice-giver. I have found it interesting to note that some of the defensiveness that I encountered stems from an unwillingness to examine that they may not know everything, which angers some. Accepting advice may be a weakness, and of course parents are not weak, know everything and are always in control.
That’s one reason. I bet there are many others like people should mind their business because human were meant to be isolated from each other.
I am sure that when a fatality occurs in an accident the thought is, “I should have done this better, me instead, give me one more day to have my child, or parents shouldn’t outlive there children.” I am sure that it’s not, “well, I stuck to my principles and didn’t listen to anyone and told them to mind their own business.”
Thought?
Lori if you see her on the road driving with the child, call her in. Report it to the police. Sadly this is the only way you can get through to some people, besides tickets and fines sometimes are what people need to get the point. You are just thinking of the child’s best interest. When you call make sure they know the child’s age, she will get ticketed. Some cities even have non emergency numbers dedicated to this purpose.
Very well said Christie! I personally (short of my best friend who is like a sister) confronted someone on their car seat positioning. I post on my Facebook about car seat safety and if a parent decides to reply with their excuses then I am at no fault for what myself or other seat safety nuts like myself say. They have clearly opened themselves up knowing they are not obeying the law. I will not attack or mention anything to someone forward facing after a year because while extended rear facing is safer once they hit 1 it is at the parent’s discretion and I do understand some car models or other circumstances leave them no option but to forward face (i.e. if the child is over the size of their seat and a larger rear facing weight limit seat isn’t in their price range). I will continue to share and post car seat safety facts, recommendations and laws on my Facebook and if someone feels that they need to comment on why they can’t follow the law then they will face the comments from myself and others. For whatever reason they felt the need to comment, explain and throw out excuse after excuse on why they can’t and we give them numerous options on why they can and they don’t bother to care.
1.) I think if you think ANY issue is completely black and white, you haven’t read, studied, or thought enough about it.
2.) People purposefully disobey laws all the time — just because it’s a law, does not make it right. Practicing midwifery is illegal in some states — I know that doesn’t stop midwives from practicing there, and I know they save and improve lives.
3.) I’d love to see some studies, and I’d love to know how many of these studies you refer to are paid for by car or car seat manufacturers. (Car seat manufacturers obviously stand to benefit from laws requiring children to be in the seats longer; car manufacturers benefit by not having to redesign their cars to be safer for a larger range of people.)
I agree with you on the third, but most of the studies are done by third party organizations, like pediatric hospital children’s trauma centers and children’s hospitals that I have. Also many others are done by NHTSA which is a government agency.
I kept my DD RF’ing until she was a little over 2.5. I wanted to keep her RF’ing longer, but she would get carsick EVERY time we got in the car. If I could figure out how to get around the carsickness, I would flip her back around in a heartbeat. Any suggestions?
Whew! It’s hard to believe that so many children of my generation made it to adulthood without all of the present day regulations!
But seriously, it’s one thing to be solicited for advice, but it’s quite another to interject without being asked – no matter what your intention. Believe it or not, not everyone needs to hear nor cares about your opinion. Your reply to Tracey came off as condescending and painfully self-congratulatory.
Twitter: RanaAurora
says:
Except many DIDN’T Cat. Fortunately our children will have less children of their generation die. I’m grateful for that.
And you know what? You can only ASK for advice on issues if you already suspect something is wrong. Fortunately, and THIS was the point of my comment above — not self-congratulatory in the slightest, but that I’VE been very grateful, as have many others I know, when people did step in — uninvited — to stop me from making dangerous mistakes, that I didn’t KNOW I was making, and therefore could not have asked if I could improve on.
Amazing that so many women are threatened by people who know more letting them know they know more. Contrary to popular belief, you don’t know everything and NEVER will. It’s best to be open to critique from friends and strangers alike, and THEN assess if something needs to be changed, rather than decide that it never does unless you ask about changing.
Sadly the other day when I made a comment to a lady at the store about baby food she was looking at, how it had twice the calories, sugar and fat then baby food X. She was glad I passed on some info another parent gave me. But when I talked to another gal about car seat safety in the car seat aisle even as a certified technician my opinion meant squat to her. How can parents be so out there when it comes to safety devices and worry so much about baby food, when it is all basically the same and perfectly safe. Dorel Juvenile group has a very good video on this exact thing I think all parents should see. It goes into the fact that so many parents view car seats more as “toys” and not as the Safety Devices that they are. More parents need to start seeing them for what they are. Not just a place to put your kid so they are not in your hair while you drive.
Twitter: RanaAurora
says:
Christin, what would help would be the change to “Child Safety Seat”… but check this out:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-carseats-special,0,7744829.story?page=2
Some car-seat makers don’t even like the word “safety” to describe their product. In the early 1990s, when federal regulators proposed changing the term for car seats from “child restraint systems” to “child safety seats,” some manufacturers protested.
Worried about possible lawsuits and the potential to “erroneously increase consumer expectations,” an attorney for car seat giant Evenflo Co. wrote to regulators: “It is unfair to create the impression that such devices provide safety.”
Based on such comments, the agency decided not to change the name.
“Barely legal parenting” sounds like a fancy way of saying lazy parenting.
In my mind, if you decide to do something that is on the edge of safe or legal (in regards to parenting) then you’re just being selfish and lazy.
What kind of mother justifies disregard of safety with “I just don’t want to”?! Whether you want to admit it or not, when you say something like “I’m not going to turn my child seat back around” what you’re really saying “That’s not convenient for me, so I’m willing to take the risk.”
Twitter: RanaAurora
says:
Yeah well, it wouldn’t be a very good title of a post to say “lazy” parenting.
I didn’t know you read this stuff Claire. Hiyah!
I was so surprised at the vehement reaction against ERF….I can’t imagine even considering ‘convenience’ over the safety of my daughter. I am just thankful that they are continually coming out with new recommendations and research, even if it costs me trouble or I have to buy a new carseat.
I’m really not trying to be self righteous – there are a lot of parenting choices that are not one size fits all, but safety should be something we can all agree on.
As far as being told I’m making a mistake…I’ll be honest, I don’t respond well to it a lot of the time. I don’t like to think that I’m wrong (or that I’ve potentially caused harm to my child). But in the end I almost always come around, even if it takes a few days or weeks or months – I have to consider – if this could be better for my child, even if I think it’s BS, should I at least look into it a little bit more?
Many of my opinions have changed this way – parenting is a constant learning journey and we all need to help each other…I just hope I’m brave enough to face being told to F off if it comes down to it, because maybe the person who said that to me will think back a week or a month later and find that idea doesn’t sound so crazy or stupid anymore…
Twitter: RanaAurora
says:
Kelly, I’m totally with you. ERF just really isn’t a parenting CHOICE anymore than giving honey to newborns should be, you know? There’s dangerous and not dangerous.
I’ve had times when someone has said something to me too and I blew them off and was annoyed, but I DEFINITELY considered what they said, regardless, especially if it was something that was more fact than opinion.
I like to think that these moms who get on and rant about ERF being “Stupid” end up doing research and eating their words. Some do, and I even saw an amazing mom come forward after being vehemently anti-ERF and say that she saw a terrible accident with a baby, and is now 100% ERF and regrets blowing it off before. I can only hope more women get a wakeup call that doesn’t involve people getting hurt.
I just wanted to stop by and say THANK YOU! I had a friend poke into my “business” haha and because of it both my children are still RFing at 2.5 and 1.5. I am SO grateful to her! I have a hard time telling other people because I get horrible reactions when I do, but it all comes down to research. Yes we all have our own opinions, but I promise if most Moms would go out and do that actual research they would RF longer, harness longer and booster longer.